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User talk:.Terran./Build:Team - The Great Dwarf Army

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If someone knows how to add the three EotN PvE skills in the bar, please do so. Cause I can't add them :( ---- 17:36, 15 September 2007 (CEST)

Alright, discuss, suggest or whatever here :) ---- 00:18, 16 September 2007 (CEST)
The Tainted MM needs some work but other than that the only thing i have to say is Nice Builds. 20:24, 18 September 2007 (CEST)
Yeah it needs a better build but couldn't think of it. Flesh Golem is too dangrous as it could lure more foes at once ---- 20:26, 18 September 2007 (CEST)

May I suggest a 1 hp Bip/Orders. Would allow for more energy form masochism, optional secondary profession, and no energy lost due to healing skills, so it might be nicer. --- 21:48, 18 September 2007 (CEST)

That could be nice yeah, but then OotV is gone. That means no auto heal with hits from arrows ---- 22:16, 18 September 2007 (CEST)
Even if you dont go OoP/BiP 1 hp is still better. ---  : 22:34, 18 September 2007 (CEST)

ALso, "By Ural's Hammer!" is kinda wierd, why is it there? --- 22:38, 18 September 2007 (CEST)

For an extra damage boost if allies get below 50%, but was kinda thinking of if that would be better. ---- 22:51, 18 September 2007 (CEST)
And suggest how the BiP nec build would be like, like what skills :) ---- 23:07, 18 September 2007 (CEST)


Optional Optional Optional Optional

12+1+3 Blood, 10+3 Soul Reaping, and 8 other. Some nice skills for the optional would be Heal Party and a res like rebirth or res chant or both. --- 00:00, 19 September 2007 (CEST)

Heal Party, Heal Other, Cure Hex and Rebirth maybe? ---- 00:23, 19 September 2007 (CEST)

I think its needs somebody with Splinter Weapon... With all the Barraging going on =\.Stryk the Lightning () 00:49, 19 September 2007 (CEST)

Since Great Dwarf weapon is the center of the build, that might not be such a good idea since splinter weapon would cancel it. --- 00:51, 19 September 2007 (CEST)
True, since Splinter Weapon will remove Great Dwarf Weapon ---- 00:54, 19 September 2007 (CEST)
Huh? I just saw that under the variants, not the actual build... the Dwarf wep would be better then... But that aside, I also think the FS ranger should bring Gaze Of Fury so he can destroy FS at almost any given time, along with the other spirits that pop up around there.Stryk the Lightning () 00:56, 19 September 2007 (CEST)
Yes it is in variants because those skills haven't been added to this wiki yet. ---- 00:57, 19 September 2007 (CEST)
And about the spirit, good idea ---- 01:00, 19 September 2007 (CEST)
Please drop clamour of souls for something else. Please... --- 01:12, 19 September 2007 (CEST)

Some variants: Dust Cloak or Staggering Force on the Ebon Dust Volleyer, as well as Vital Boon, Mystic Regen and/or Signet of Pious Light... And Flesh of My Flesh or Death Pact Signet on the FS Barrager.Stryk the Lightning () 03:32, 19 September 2007 (CEST)

one of the barragers should have poison tip signet for AoE poison ftw.--Aesthetic ()
Poison Tip Signet only does on the first hit though, and why does the volleyer need any of these enchantments btw? ---- 10:21, 19 September 2007 (CEST)
If the Ebon Dust Volleyer doesn't have an ebon bow s/he can use Dust Cloak or Staggering Force. They convert his/her damage into earth damage. As for Vital Boon and Signet, just a self heal since you already have descent earth prayers to work with.Stryk the Lightning () 14:23, 19 September 2007 (CEST)
That's true, but it has a ebon bow ---- 17:07, 19 September 2007 (CEST)
... Like I just said... if the person has the elite but DOESN'T HAVE AN EBON BOW, he or she can use those. Not as many rangers as you might think actually have fully modded up ebon bows or bow strings right there in front of them to use at any time you know...Stryk the Lightning () 22:56, 19 September 2007 (CEST)
I know, I know, and true again, I'll add in variants ---- 23:26, 19 September 2007 (CEST)

Ok... about the monks... I suggest you make the Div Hexes monk into full prot with a better bar... and both bars look like they have a little too much energy use for comfort, even with a BiP. On the Div Hexes monk, you have three 10 energy spells and a 15 energy one, most of which are spammable. Even with GoLE... I'd rather it have a full prot bar, possibly with Gift Of Health. The healing one should be all right however. And you can add Great Dwarf Armor to the prot bar too. Just suggesting =P.Stryk the Lightning () 02:52, 20 September 2007 (CEST)

I edited a grammar mistake in the summary. I don't know how someone could miss it, it was one of the first words you read and anyone could tell it didn't look right.Fire Tock ()

Yeah, I was actually thinking of multiple heals, but with all those Knockdowns and Blindness you can do on foes it won't be really needed, I'll fix monk builds ---- 16:09, 20 September 2007 (CEST)
I wouldnt use Cure Hex with Gift of Health in there.. if you use Gift you then disable your only hex removal for 7 seconds... and I wasn't quite saying Divert Hexes was bad, so you could probably put that back in there over Cure Hex then just put Shield of Absorption there. If not Divert, there's lots more great prot elites, and just put remove hex there for the lower recharge.Stryk the Lightning () 00:29, 21 September 2007 (CEST)
Hmm yeah, I'll change to divert ---- 14:21, 21 September 2007 (CEST)

Is aggro control the only reason you're using Bone Fiends? Bone Fiends don't make too good of minion walls as far as I know...Stryk the Lightning () 23:58, 21 September 2007 (CEST)

Yeah I know, but since you knockdown and blind foes alot too...change to melee minions? ---- 14:03, 22 September 2007 (CEST)

How bout the skill "I am the strongest" to add damage to each of your Barrages. - 02:22, 22 September 2007 (CEST)

Yes I was also thinking of "I Am The Strongest!" instead of "By Ural's Hammer!". If anyone else thinks it should be changed, let me know ---- 14:03, 22 September 2007 (CEST)
Second monk sucks, MM sucks, BiP is not necessary just like EDA ranger.

Divert Hexes is complete waste of elite slot in Slaver's Exile because hexes aren't that big of a deal there, plus if you are using MM shouldn't most of them end up on minions? If you are making a MM for "minion wall" shouldn't you be using Animate Bone Minion/s and Flesh Golem insead of this Martyr MM build? BiP isn't really necessary because none of the builds has any big energy consuming skill so I think OoV with Blood Ritual is much better choice then BiP, and why do you need EDA if you are going to keep them on the ground most of the time?-- 03:54, 29 October 2007 (CET)

Contents

[]  ?... Change Name

Umm, it's called the Great Dwarf Army, but the skill the Great dwarf Weapon isnt involved. Also it doesnt say anywhere that it farms dwarves, no dwarf skills involved, no where does it say that you farm WITH dwarves. Change the name.Fire Tock () 03:02, 22 September 2007 (CEST)

Doesn't about half the team have Great Dwarf Weapon? --/// 03:05, 22 September 2007 (CEST)
The Great Dwarf Weapon is used on all the Barragers, but the icon has not been added to this wiki yet, therefore it is not able to be placed in a skill bar on here. Thats why it says "Optional slots Add in: Great Dwarf Weapon, Dwarven Stability ...etc"Stryk the Lightning () 05:57, 22 September 2007 (CEST)
What the 2 above me said. ---- 13:59, 22 September 2007 (CEST)

[] Rebirth

Besides the sunspear rez, should there not be a hard rez besides rebirth? I've run low hp BiP before and rebirth won't rez with dp and low hp build. If the BiP dies, could be a major problem to get him rez'd.

Hmm, true ---- 17:52, 1 October 2007 (CEST)
put death pact sig on the r/Rt--Coloneh () 01:37, 29 October 2007 (CET)
DPS isn't a very good res just for a 1 HP BiP. FoMF or Res Chant work much better. Kabu To () 05:03, 29 October 2007 (CET)
DP sig should already be in the team somewhere. its the best perma-rez in the game, hands down.--Coloneh () 05:08, 29 October 2007 (CET)
*ahem, one ranger go r/p, bring Go For the Eyes and Signet of Return. Alternitavely, have a paragon barrager- the command skill does not have to be high at all. Bring a 12 Marksmenship and There's Nothing To Fear. 3 Rangers, 1 shout barrage. :) -Crypt Warden

[] PvE Skills

If I am not mistaken, you can only pick 3 PvE skills and the "EDA Dwarven Volleyer" has 4. Maybe switch out Sunspear Rebirth Signet for Signet of Ressurection --Waldschrat () 13:39, 29 October 2007 (CET)

[] Am i missing something?

I am fairly new and do not edit often, but I think that there is a typo for one of the monk builds, it says zb healer and yet no zb...I know that this is minor but I wanted to point it out. --Cera the Slayer —The preceding comment was added by () .

Fixed, thanks. You can edit stuff like that yourself, everyone makes mistakes ;) –Ichigo724 () 16:57, 30 October 2007 (CET)

[] Needs

Ebon Battle Standard of Honor imo. + damage on minions and rangers. Can easily replace "I am the Strongest!" 04:46, 8 November 2007 (CET)

Use both. Lord Belar () 04:47, 8 November 2007 (CET)
Done, more dmg ftw ---- (*) 19:53, 8 November 2007 (CET)

[] rangers... too much deldrimor, lightning doesnt synergize... issues with mm also

-lightning reflexes or any other IAS buff will not synergize well with barrage. The dodge is nice, and I see where youre going with the stability buff (meh) but there are other longer lasting dodge skills available (whirling defense, etc) With IAS you end up double-drawing on barrage.

-rangers drop Dwarf Weapon, and unless working on Drunkard track, drop Dwarven Stability. Then add Favorable Winds, Winnowing, Winter (as needed) and take a weak pet. Zero Beastmastery as per usual BP topk style (which is what this build is at its core). Also EVERY ranger should have I Am The Strongest. Troll Unguent shouldnt be necessary with the monks (and martyr mm). With the pets, I realize that the r/rt in particular runs low on skill slots- one ranger brings Revive Animal. Would be nice to have an EoE spirit, but the atts dont add up i guess? Maybe the reviver.. Troll Unguent should be replaced with an interrupt imo.

-one ritualist with GDW and Wielder's Zeal can do the job much better (aside from weapon spell duration extending per spawning power) the ritualist can use the other 5 skills on the bar to buff the party, probably with spirit spamming of union, recuperation, and the like.... or use a secondary... Orders even. Im fairly confident rt/n GDW/Orders would work well.

- Orders should take heal area instead of heal other, the MM should not take monk healing skills for her minions. In an area where there are enough corpses to use a MM, there are enough corpses that you should always be killing off the weak as you create the strong keeping your 10 minions up. the Martyr+infuse is not a horrid idea by any means, and Im not going to doubt the call on that one. At this point, I would feel more confident bringing a Hero MM.

Ive been pushing for people to try the great dwarf barrage build for a while now, and Im sure it will help many rangers finally get a Kanaxai trophy. The only reason im being so critical is because I would like to see this kind of build become more popular in the pve circuits :) Main points being the IAS/doubledraw and the RIT GDW SPAMMER!:) -Crypt Warden

PS rangers, please remember elemental bowstrings do not work with winnowing or orders.

A Ritualist with Dwarf Weapon would be great, but you would have to drop either a Barrager, the MM, the Bip or one of the monks for him. Second problem is that if his build is not carefully tailored for this purpose (ie = not able to fullfill the other roles) he will not have much energy left for things other than spamming the dwarfweapon on recharge. The build is role-wise perfect as it is. Grobie () 07:24, 13 November 2007 (CET)
How much BiP do you need in a team of only 2 casters (mm doesnt count- has plenty of energy) and rangers with expertise?? -CW
This build does not really needs anything changed imo..---- (*) 17:20, 13 November 2007 (CET)

The BiP (if it's even necessary) should be a 1hp, cause with his current state with no regeneration skills, monks will lose more energy on healing his sacrifices than they would for anything else, basically making BiP needed only because u need to heal the crazy saccer himself. Also, if that biper goes to 1hp, which he should with the current bar, he's very vulnerable to random spirit spawns that are common in Slaver's, so I guess a 105 or so BiP with regeneration skills like Blood Renewal is better. Troll Unguent is a waste of a slot on all rangers that have it, as well as Lightning Reflexes (or any IAS) not being compatible with Barrage, or at least not in the most efficient of ways. The mm definetely needs melee range minions, otherwise the meatshield part of his job isn't there. And why is one monk DH is a real mystery to me, but I guess that doesn't matter much. And the biggest mystery of this build (and one I haven't seen brought up by anyone in the discussion so far, which is weird considering this is meant as a Slaver's Exile build) is HOW IN THE HELL IS THIS SUPPOSED TO KILL DUNCAN? Also another not so important, but notable anomaly is the EDA blinder not being affected by orders, which is fine I guess considering the nice utility he brings to the team.

Rangers only do with GDW, not any more damage buffs cause of duncan's ability. And I'll have to change the monk builds cause of the recent changes to skills ---- (*) 19:46, 14 November 2007 (CET)

[] Minion Master

The minionmaster is my only concern at the moment. Needs close-combat range imho. The thing about LoD is obvious. Grobie () 18:27, 16 November 2007 (CET)

Yeah I know, I was thinking...if the melee minions lure more foes, the barragers would still KD them, right? ;) ---- (*) 20:08, 16 November 2007 (CET)

[] 5-5-5

Congrats, this is on the 5-5-5 list. --- 03:25, 18 November 2007 (CET)

Ohhh, and where is the 5-5-5 list? :o ---- (*) 03:30, 18 November 2007 (CET)
-- 03:38, 18 November 2007 (CET)

IMO: Bring a pet and make it a TotPK team. Seems very good in me, and you could even switch it to be used on Triple Chop/Hundred Blades Warriors, Scythes, etc. -- 00:09, 22 November 2007 (CET)

If you bring a pet, it'll be the same as B/P. Swift Thief () 01:58, 22 November 2007 (CET)
1, you dont need a pet here. 2, there is actually no spot for a pet. 3, warriors or whatever dont fit in this team build ---- (*) 12:48, 22 November 2007 (CET)

[] Orders

I haven't looked the team build up and down, but the build right now for orders is pretty pathetic. N/D is probably the way to go with mystic regen. With the amount of regen from that, you can cast blood bond on anyone in need and give them +6 for 19 secs (or +7 for 23 secs if you have Awaken the Blood in use).

I think the build you might want to consider is here: (this one excites me b/c OoP can pretty much be used constantly)

If you need more healing capabilities, consider this: BUT know that you will need to switch skills around to get OoP in and I have no idea why this build isn't using Masochism.

You might want something between these two builds? Either way, they're both much more self-sufficient than the current one up.

Oh, or do the 1hp thing as mentioned earlier.

yes it's supposed to be the 1hp, but it's not mentioned tbh ---- (*) 03:14, 30 December 2007 (EST)

[] Dodge This Change!

IMO -> Dodge This! Over I am the Strongest. As Dodge This! has a set time limit, extra damage And Cannot be blocked. 20:19, 18 January 2008 (EST)

I am the Strongest: next 4...8 attacks / Dodge This: Next shot Swift Thief () 13:56, 19 January 2008 (EST)
also, u only gain 1 adrenaline per barrage/volley so meh, and i am the strongest can be pre casted ---- (*) 17:54, 19 January 2008 (EST)

[] Ideas

Hi, why this build doesn't use a Tank? I think the life of the Dwarf Army will be short since no tank to take the great amount of Dmg. Than if the Nec build is worked properly no rly need for 2 Nec.

The Orders Necro:

uhh, knockdowns? ---- (*) 12:01, 22 January 2008 (EST)

Isn't it very useful use a Paragon, primary o secondary, all the attacks will benefit from the paragon buffs.

doesnt hit multiple foes? ---- (*) 15:44, 23 January 2008 (EST)

Go for the Eyes, Anthem of Envy, Anthem of Flame, Zealous Anthem just to name a few...Zealot () 15:57, 23 January 2008 (EST)

adding a para means lesser damage cause u will need to swap a Ranger for it which also means less protection via knockdown ---- (*) 16:04, 23 January 2008 (EST)

on a side note, EACH ranger has at around +95dmg EACH arrow. adding a para means less dmg cause a ranger will be gone ---- (*) 16:07, 23 January 2008 (EST)
if all is maxed that is ---- (*) 16:07, 23 January 2008 (EST)

P/R

R/P

and with 2 monks and the order N healer, all the kd, the 75%block... there is no need for the Dwarven Martyr MM. Zealot () 16:28, 23 January 2008 (EST)

meatshields ---- (*) 16:43, 23 January 2008 (EST)

...Bone Fiends are ranged so not a meatshield, the en cost is too high to be spammable too...

...the Martyr elite is quite wasted allong with Infuse...Zealot () 16:55, 23 January 2008 (EST)

u dont understand what Soul Reaping does and why Martyr and Infuse Condition do well with each other do u? ---- (*) 16:59, 23 January 2008 (EST)

omg the talk has gotten to personal... its you that dont understand that Martyr elite is useless lame and can be replaced perfectly with cheap non elite monk skills. So when you dont know how to set the N build dont just go and pick the free atribute Martyr that goes well with Infuse, cuz you waste 50% of the Nec skills in that lame elite.Zealot () 17:31, 23 January 2008 (EST)

lulz, i herd party condition remover was pretty gud...and for bone fiends: FW, WW, Ward pumps up there dmg since they will also be near the ward since they are ranged...now...suggest any elite YOU think that fits here ---- (*) 17:35, 23 January 2008 (EST)

The Order MM

Optional

Blood 12+4, Death 11+3, SR 6+3; This will leave room for one more Dwarf Barrager Zealot () 17:43, 23 January 2008 (EST)

yah, BUT...yes theres a but ^^, distant BiP is pretty usefull as it has 1hp and can sac ranged at safety. the build u r showing containt BR only and it will have very low hp which could die really quick, altho nice try ---- (*) 17:47, 23 January 2008 (EST)

Nice try yes a lot better than your crap N builds with marthyr elite... Do you realize that N casts BIP or BR on monks, since monks are back at the casters place near the necro the touch range of BR is not a problem. The low health of the N is not a problem too its an advantage, if you have any experience in the elite areas team builds you will know that.Zealot () 18:01, 23 January 2008 (EST)

The BiP is able to add an extra heal, the Martyr MM keeps the party condition clear and adds extra dmg via bone fiends, QQ ---- (*) 18:08, 23 January 2008 (EST)

Dont you think that OoV is a spike dmg and spike heal? If a Barrage hits just 4 foes thats 80hp gain each barrage, thats like 80hp per second, OoV is an insane healing skill! For the conditions, there are the 2 monks, that is their job, + conditions are not a great threat, so i dont see why you stick to the marthyr so much. And Minions as you sad are being used as meat wall so no need to pump their dmg, much better take 1 more Barrager.Zealot () 18:27, 23 January 2008 (EST)

Consider adding since its quite useful in a barrage party.Zealot () 07:00, 24 January 2008 (EST)

actually, its a gud idea. I'll see what i can do ---- (*) 10:50, 24 January 2008 (EST)

R/Mo

R/D

N/Rt

M/E

M/Me

The Arcane Mimicry monk steals the HB from the other monk and spams LoD with the HB boost.

You can add this at the place of 1 R/Mo:

P/R

the paragon will add Dmg, Constant Burning and 50% Dmg reduction with "They're on Fire!". My only worry is his en management, so if any know good the paragon let us know.Zealot () 17:12, 24 January 2008 (EST)

seed of life is meh tho, cuz theres like a constant KD all the time and P/R variant is meh also ---- (*) 18:23, 24 January 2008 (EST)

meh? whats that?Zealot () 19:11, 24 January 2008 (EST)

Ok seed of life is not so good here, just changed it. Still i dont see why the extra initial spike dmg+constant burning+50%dmg reduction offerd by Envy+Flame+They're on Fire is not good? can you argument?Zealot () 06:32, 25 January 2008 (EST)

anthem of flame only takes affect on the first hit when using barrage, not on everyone ---- (*) 11:57, 25 January 2008 (EST)

Im wondering how you managed to think of a nice build like this and in the same time dont understand basic skills like ...

For 10 seconds, the next attack Skill used by each party member within earshot also causes Burning for 1...3...3 seconds.

consider that the barragers will not attack in the same instant so the aoe burning will last at least 6 sec... if worked properly it will last 10 sec meaning you will keep burning on foes constantly Zealot () 12:21, 25 January 2008 (EST)

erm dude, srsly, AoF only takes affect on the first hit when using barrage....rly... ---- (*) 12:29, 25 January 2008 (EST)

No as the skill states it takes effect after the first skill not hit. Now lets see: you got 5 barragers (4R+1P) all under AoF chant.

First barrager shoots hits 6 targets, 6 targets on fire for 3 sec, aoe burning for 3 sec.

Since its impossible that all the barragers will shoot in the same instant we can say that every barrager will shoot in 1 sec difference. First shoots, afer 1 second the second barrager, after 2 seconds the third barrager and so on. So the first barrager puts AOE burning for 3 sec, the second barrager shoots with one sec delay so he adds 1 sec burning, the third adds 1sec too, so on, if there are 5 barragers in the team there will be at least 7 sec aoe burning. AoF is one of the useful paragon skills for this build, "go for the eyes" is very effective here too Zealot () 12:48, 26 January 2008 (EST)

yes it states the first attack skill but rather only does on the first hit ---- (*) 13:34, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Ok ill test it now on Isle of NamelessZealot () 13:42, 26 January 2008 (EST)

kk ---- (*) 13:45, 26 January 2008 (EST)

yes its buged it states on skill but it triggers just on 1st hit... =/ Zealot () 07:30, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Do you intend to change something frome the things i have proposed or i should start a Dwarf Army - Ownge page to implement them?Zealot () 12:52, 31 January 2008 (EST)

this team is fine as it is, rly ---- (*) 12:53, 31 January 2008 (EST)

okZealot () 05:31, 1 February 2008 (EST)

I continue working on this build since i think there is alot to be fixed. you can see to chek the recent updates.Zealot () 10:18, 2 February 2008 (EST)


You may be interested to see that is an updated version of the Great Dwarf Army build.Zealot () 11:00, 4 February 2008 (EST)

Even though the vetting of that didnt go so well, i think that Zealot has a point. Crit barragers could do more damage with the same functionality. I Am Jebus () 18:22, 20 February 2008 (EST)

[] Some updates

  • Monks: Orison of Healing isn't very good, and now Patient Spirit works with Healer's Boon. Vigorous Spirit will probably be better than Healing Seed when your Barragers are hitting multiple foes.
  • MM: OoU might be better if you want your MM's to try to keep up with the Barragers. Plus, Martyr is a bit of a waste of an Elite when you could just take Foul Feast. This means you'll probably have to put EBSoH on another ally unless you can find the room on the MM. Something on the lines of:

/
12 + 1 + 3
12 + 1
3
Template code
 

There have been quite a few updates to skills since this build was vetted. - 07:57, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

yeah thanks for telling, i havent played GW in a while so didnt really check out the latest updates to keep this up to date -- (*) 08:34, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

Honestly, I think that while the build isn't bad, two changes that could improve it are substituting Aegis or Guardian for Rebirth on the monks (if things are going south, you want someone who isn't key to party defense using resurrect spells, and you have enough other copies). Also, BiP is probably not necessary. The people who seem to be needing it the most are the rangers, who don't want to burn 10 of their limited energy supply on a weapon spell. Bring a D/N Arcane Orders build and slap GDW on them, they'll have no problem using it indefinitely. Bringing another copy on the MM for faster application is another option, as they too have ample energy supplies. This would free a slot for more utility and efficient energy use on the rangers. While interrupts may not be necessary for the most part, a Distracting Shot or two wouldn't hurt when bringing this against KD resistant enemies. Just a few thoughts. -LDV

I agree with you, for the most part, but knowing what you're up against is key. If you know you're fighting against targets that can't be knocked down, you'd be better off with either Splinter Weapon (thank God that nerf is temporary) or a completely different build (without Barragers). Distracting Shot would still help to interrupt important skills, even when the targets are being knocked down, but seeing as this build is for Slaver's Exile, I can't think of any skills that are really worth interrupting. - 17:00, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
most unknockable foes are warriors, if spellcasters..they would die fast anyone since of the high dmg buff this build supplies -- (*) 18:21, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
Would a 'Sin be viable in this team anywhere? Like an A/R Barrager? 08:46, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
A sin's Spirits wouldn't be as effective, nor would Troll Unguent, but I see no reason why you couldn't. - 08:49, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
with A/R you will lose ability for IAS+block in 1 and a very important safe ressing skill: rebirth. buts fine in not-so-dangerous team farming spots -- (*) 11:09, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
Sins have Critical Agility and Critical Defenses, which is probably easier to use than Lightning Reflexes+Dwarven Stability, but the loss of Rebirth might be a problem, sometimes. - 11:12, 19 April 2008 (EDT)

[] You need Moar

| 20:08, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

troll less 23:47, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
troll less -- (*) 07:26, 18 August 2008 (EDT)

^tht was a mistake | 19:59, 13 September 2008 (EDT)

[] Tombs?

Could see this working well for tombs as a variant of the usually b/p groups. 20:37, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

yes it works in tombs :) 12:30, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
This is wut u should be using--Relyk () 00:48, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

[] aotl

wouldnt ura of the lich be better here? flesh golem is kinda bad 02:51, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

fixed 02:52, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

archive >_> 20:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

don't we just archive builds that we once used? To my knowledge, no one has ever used this....ever.
my point exactly --    20:43, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
i saw a few, though shortly after everyone went ursanway so meh 20:44, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
exactly --    20:44, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
tbh, I think WELL is the way to go. If you really want to save it, I have no problem archiving it or you moving it to your userspace. Either way, no one is going to use it.

we need to clear out pve team section. or make hero/player friendly. Exo Oo () 20:48, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

why do you think I well'd it smart one? very valuable contribution, luke, thanks --    20:49, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
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