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Build talk:Team - Glint's Heroway

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Revision as of 03:09, 12 April 2012 by ()

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how about doing one that doesn't require merc. heros? i know ive seen at least a couple of afk glints build teams around here on user pages. Dacookiemaster () 22:47, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

-- 22:52, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
there is a vid and code on there for non mercs using the same builds. Just use e/me for the two extra Mesmers. Not sure how it compares to relyks link. -- 23:26, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
I just bumped this back to trial bc it's not ready to be tested. As is I ran this and failed. However, I had no issues when I ran 4 mes spikers, sos/restore, sols necro and motigon w/EoE. -- 16:03, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
How does this require merc heroes? Bhagwad () 20:22, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
The way it's built does because it requires 3 Mesmer heroes and 2 Ritualists (impossible because only Razah can be the second Ritualist or the third Mesmer). However, I ran this with my third necromancer hero having all of the skills and attributes of the Mesmer hero (excluding Fast Casting) and shoved the rest of the attribute points into Soul Reaping, and it worked out until the end. I maxed out Beast Mastery and cast Edge of Extinction when appropriate (the suggested hero with the skill had it as well) and only got involved through the acid and snowstorm skills and it was effective the whole way through. Obviously a primary mesmer would be ideal, but a hero running Mesmer worked fine for me on Normal Mode. 01:53, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Edit: I forgot. It doesn't require mercenaries now that Initiate Zei Ri is available. 03:09, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Contents

emo protter

so, mine sat there and did nothing the whole time until half the team was wiped. anyone else having that issue? i swapped him out for a necro SoLS restore and did fine. -- 16:06, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Well I can recommend the Icy Veins healer since destroyers have 40 less armor vs cold dmg and it has minor synergy with EoE at the start. Otherwise ER prot will ignore the very small damage packets, get his ench removed a lot, and generally get floored :/ -- 17:23, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, Emo protter is pretty worthless in my experience so far. Wombatt () 02:28, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
The EMo protter does just about nothing. Every time I tried with it in the party, we wiped during the second wave. As soon as I replaced it with Chieftain Alex's Icy Veins healer (left all the other heroes exactly as they are here) Glint's became a cake-walk. Of course, I still have to step in occasionally to provide some cover-fire, but rarely. 08:18, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Look at the build under the "moo" section below. It uses a ST rit instead of an ER. Works reliably for me so far. No deaths after many tries, no micro managing, no need to bring EoE since your hero brings it.DarkSpirit () 15:52, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

well i just ran this as per the builds on the page for the first time with only one hero dieing and no other problems worked out great for me (Killolgy () 09:08, 11 November 2011 (UTC))

spears and shields

"Spears must be used on all Heroes to avoid destroyers using Chaos Storm. - " I want to test this out and see how much of a difference it makes. if significant then they should be mandatory. -- 18:54, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I've tested this out myself, and I found that shields and spears don't really help that much, maybe it's just me though 11:25, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
go on youtube and there will be videos with builds, or i got one on my user page, haven't once failed wit it, but with the one showed here, failed about 1/2 of the time. Dacookiemaster () 01:18, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
@Dacookiemaster: Heroes don't use keystone build well because they dont always cast symbolic celerity upon recharge.
For some reason people always say that, but i cant seem to die when i use this team, so tell me what i'm doing wrong. Dacookiemaster () 23:30, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
I am just pointing out that the heroes AI is not optimal when using symbolic celerity, not that they would definitely crumble and die. Furthermore, the mission has enchantment removal which puts Keystone builds at risk. Energy Surge would have been a better choice for this. --The preceding comment was added by () at 03:54, 21 October 2011 (UTC).
Well, i'm just sharing what i use, and from the looking i've been doing most afk glints teams have keystone mesmers and discord necs, but everyone has a choice for what they want to run and they are all different so its more of a waste of time to post them on here. Dacookiemaster () 12:11, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Much to my amusement, cookie's build seems to be the most solid of the lot we've posted on pvx. 19:31, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

moo

I like the look of for the setup.-- 03:39, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

I have been busy lately and haven't been able to test out much more than the posted one, which fails with the protter. I need to sit down and test all the variants soon so we can find the best one. I like the one you posted bc the heroes bring eoe which should be a no brainer if you really want to go afk. Looks triable. -- 04:09, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Yes the hero should bring EoE so you can actually afk. I have an improved build for you:
Here is the page in guru that talks about the build in the above video:

This build sucks huge ass its pathetic the heroes need micromanaging in order for it to work as intended otherwise they sit there like dummies plz take off and stop making ppl waste time with this. --The preceding comment was added by () at 02:45, 21 October 2011 (UTC).

Well i'm trying to figure out a team that works with/merc./microing/no keystones. if the team in the thread above turns out promising i'll start with it and give my results back. Dacookiemaster () 16:08, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Yes the team in the above thread works with merc/no microing/no keystones. Please try it out and provide feedback thanks.DarkSpirit () 16:37, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Preferablly, this build should not use mercs. If you want to create one with mercs, consider creating a Glints' Mercway. -- 19:28, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
^We currently don't have a merc section, so all our builds currently do not assume everyone will have them. -- 22:04, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
I was actually thinking that you can use N/Me or E/Me like in some other glintway setups instead of mercs. The point being that you can run 4 dom heroes with a normal backline instead of what's shown on the current article page-- 22:19, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Yes, you can simply switch one mesmer to a N/Me and you would not need a merc.DarkSpirit () 03:55, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
With the guru link, i think i've found a team that might work, still using the eccential builds in it but using different professions/attributes with same effect in a different way. (about the same time as keystone mesmers as well) Dacookiemaster () 03:00, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
I've done with changing heros, got the team posted on my userpage, no mercs./microing/keystones. this is one version that works, i'm sure someone else will have one as well. (about as fast as keystones) Dacookiemaster () 14:45, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
You can have pretty much anything/Mesmer if you so wanted (Derv/Mes, Para/Mes, Ele/Mes, easy). Maybe one of those bars for mercenaries might be good, though, like the consumables one. (WM) 20:34, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
hmm, i know this is easy and all once we find a team, but wouldn't prices of the cloths and maybe the d-cores going down would discourage this being ran? dont know if that has to do with anything but just a random thought. Dacookiemaster () 21:52, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
Even if prices go down, someone has to farm them. Also just being able to upgrade all of your own EotN heroes is nice. -- 00:34, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
Price floor is 5k due to that being the price of every other hero armor remnant, I highly doubt it will go below that. However, the availability of this farm has reduced price of brotherhood from 10-8k to 6-5k :/ -- 08:48, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

I have been running a modified version of this build and it solves the issue of the player bringing the EoE. I am still testing/tweaking it but so far it has proven more effective than the current build here. -- 18:25, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

I've been running Chieftain Alex's team, (link near the very top) and i find it works, and has about the same time as keystone team (about 18 minutes total), i think i tried running this but didn't really appealed to me much.

Not digging the N/Rt

Two condition removal skills is not necessary, especially since Mend Body and Soul is fueled by the multitude of spirits from the SoS. I'd suggest Spirit Transfer and Weapon of Warding replacing 7 and 8. If you want to stick with Angorodon's Gaze and Foul Feast, drop Mend Body and Soul for Weapon of Warding or Spirit Transfer. 17:31, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Keystone

I know everyone hates keystone heroes, but i've found that they actually work in this challenge mish. only time i failed with them is when i forgot i was in hm, but never failed in nm. Dacookiemaster () 23:39, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Theres a HD video on youtube with the KS heroes that could be of interest. Needs more comparison + testing. 15:40, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
perhaps it is you in the video? using those exact bars as in your sandbox anyway. 15:48, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
haven't made a video, but i believe theres a link somewhere to gw guru about it and a few videos using keystone. its just one of the variants that could be used in this challenge mish. Dacookiemaster () 22:14, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Testing

Should this build be moved to testing? I see no formatting issues with it. If nobody has any issues with it I will move it to testing. That way it stops idling in trial limbo.-- 06:57, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I'd move it to testing, I see it has been moved to Abandoned. I've been using this build setup for a few days now and it works great, a few little tweaks here and there but for the most part it's a win win every time. I think it should be moved to testing so we all can further improve on it. Ghostlymass () 16:03, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
Same, The build I have been using is a mix between this one and the one posted on guru.-- 17:06, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
random idea alert: how about we just make a guide about afk glints heroway since there's so many different teams that could be taken that takes about the same time? Dacookiemaster () 10:10, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't think we really need a guide to say "bring aoe damage, minor heals, flag heroes, afk." 10:58, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
why not just have the build page say that then? since theres atleast about 3-5 versions of heroway. Dacookiemaster () 11:55, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
That would make too much sense? (I would be interested in it)-- 14:56, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Ok, so you'd have two set bars. the Illusion Ineptitude mes & the human EoE. Its really difficult to pin down any other bars into the group. I guess you can mainbar Spirit Light, MBAS, PwK, Life and Signet of lost souls on the nec healer. And perhaps SoS and Bloodsong on the rit. Otherwise the bars do vary a lot.-- 15:40, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
The bars can definitely vary, and if people have mercs, then they have access to more mesmer cheese. If we were to do a guide it would probably list the main bars and their variants in the optional skills section. From my testing you can mix and mash the hero bars to a certain degree to find the team build that suits your tastes. From the research I have done in game and from other user's builds you need to have burst AoE damage, caster hate, melee hate, spirit spammer, healer, and some sort of buffing system in place.-- 05:39, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
i still say we should just make a guide with the base main builds/skills with the optionals you can take, since most teams differ. Dacookiemaster () 00:20, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Merc

Slap merc tag on it and get it vetted with primary mesmers? 12:09, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

well I know that this build was meant as a way to avoid using mercs. Otherwise we could just copy verbatim the guru build for the team build because it runs better but requires at least 2 mercs.-- 13:44, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Fragile - change

This build is really fragile and to make it work I'm forced to bring a couple of party heals and UA. Of course, it might be because my heroes all have caster weapons equipped - that triggers Chaos Storm, right? Except that's not the only problem. Spirit Rift spikes and Deeds' Debilitating Shot are mighty frustrating, as is the fact that the Compassion+Bones wave can sometimes spike a target since heroes do nothing until they get hit by an attack. Granted, the later levels are easy, but the beginning can easily mess up if you're truly AFK. The build here as is doesn't work - or if it does, it needs to explicitly note what equipment is mandatory to avoid failure when the player actually goes AFK. I'm all for switching this build out, and switching in one of the linked builds instead - just switch mercenaries to primary something-else (Elementalist for example). 14:51, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

So I can summarise that by saying you didn't follow the usage and then the build didn't work! --> even if you're a cheapskate you can just use no weapon at all instead. 16:04, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
First off, it seems to me you did not follow set instructions at all! And yet you complain the build doesn't work. Secondly, what's your defenition of caster weapons? Caster weapons are a sword or spear with a shield. Choas storm is triggered by "The AI will only use this skill on foes that have a wand or staff equipped." So it seems to me you started this run in the entirely wrong way. And lastly, i just did the run, completely following the instructions on the mainpage. I casted 1 eoe and Alkar's Alchemical Acid and Snow Storm, to kill the balls created on the two sides. For the rest of the run i was completely afk up to the end to collect my stuff. My advice to you would be... Learn to read directions and suggestions and try again. ^_^ Also, This isn't a mercenary build page... it's just plain heroes. 18:36, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
One of the biggest learning curves is knowing where to properly flag the heros. Runes and weapons are largely optional but switching the items to spears/swords helps ensure your heros don't get pressured by chaos storm. It should also be noted that you should use the dwarven title so that the heros have a little bit of a self heal going on. Makes the run much smoother. All that being said I prefer my variant to this build.-- 18:51, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
@Chieftain: Except if Chaos Storm is the only problem then a note that says "not wielding a staff or wand is mandatory" should be added. In case you haven't noticed, there is no such note. This fact is even disputed in an earlier section on this talk page. And if no weapon is better than staff/wand, that is also worth mentioning. As is, I read it as a guideline, as what is optimal but not necessary, as well as part of the elitist attitude on the internet. This isn't your build's page. This page doesn't state all those informative things yours do. This doesn't have a nice little picture. Feel free to share. @Sunny: Caster weapons are staves and wands (with foci). Yes, sword/shield and spear/shield are used by many casters because it's great, but that doesn't make them caster weapons - they're martial weapons. There are no "set instructions" other than flagging heroes and setting them to aggressive or guard mode (and casting EoE). I did flag my heroes on the ledge near the dragon, and I even spread them out as was possible. If this seemingly simple action can be done wrong, then the page needs to note that. I never said this was a mercenary build page. If you read it again, I'm sure you'll notice that I in fact said the exact opposite. Much of my original comment is based on the seemingly unresolved discussions on this talk page. I'm also not so much complaining as providing feedback for the sake of improving page quality. Thanks for answering the question about Chaos Storm. As I said though, that's not the only problem I'm seeing. I said this build is fragile, not that it doesn't work in any way. Also noteworthy is that I too brought EoE, Alkar's Alchemical Acid and Snow Storm, and like you used them on the two clumps. That alone isn't enough to guarantee success for me, which means something else is also a problem. If Chaos Storm is the catalyst for my heroes' failure, then instead of putting me down just edit the page to reflect that. Very simple, and I would do it if I had the knowledge it appears you all have. @Jarad: In my opinion (which may be wrong), if there is a risk of Chaos Storm out-pressuring your heroes while you AFK, then the page should state that. Also, I made sure to have my dwarven title active all the time. Finally, I should probably say that I've done this run several times now, successfully getting Cloths, but without being entirely AFK (not including initial EoE, AAA and SS casts) which defeats the stated purpose of this build. 16:06, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Basically there is a reason there is an equipment section. 16:21, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
So can you explain what a +20 energy set is? +5/+15? Never heard that being called "+20 energy set". There is a reason for language classes in school ("or" makes weapons a matter of preference). There is a reason for a talk page as well. See the above discussion in which you were actually quoted. Instead of putting me down, which you are, be constructive and fix the page using the knowledge you seem to be in possession of and I apparently am lacking. If you know the answers, what's so difficult in adding them to clear up the confusion? Your userpage's build is very detailed - copy/paste some info maybe? 19:42, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
+20e set is a staff with an Insightful head and a +5e inscription (conditional on enchant or >50% health) and the staff's inherent +10e, if I'm not mistaken. It's not consistent with the +30 or +15e sets using wand+offhand (the base 12e on the offhand is ignored in that case) but that's what players call them. -- 20:41, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

[reset indent] Which effectively means I didn't misread any of the instructions. I used staves for my heroes because there was a choice between spear/shield OR staves with energy mods. This build is in testing. I tested it. I provided feedback. Now for someone knowledgeable to handle this information and improve the build based on it. If the staff option doesn't work, remove it and state that spears/swords are mandatory. Also, hexbreaker on the ritualist that can't attack because of PwK? I couldn't notice it ever being charged and used so might want to look into that. 23:32, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Very effective at completing the run if you are not AFK and keep EoE up. Works so good that on a slow day you can chart in the top 50 with fairly minimal effort. Without Mercs running the Ineptitude builds the 2nd wave of all attackers often wipes the party if you are afk. The necro functions slightly better with Icy Veins in the elite slot instead of Xinraes Weapon, but I suppose both work and the addition of Xinrae helps on the Melee attackers. I resorted to staying in game and spamming Ebon Vanguard Battle Standard of Honor in the middle of the heroes and hitting balls as they arrive with Light or Deldrimor so EoE will wipe or severely damage them. I was using a warrior and found Dwarven stability + Gladiator's Defense wipes the dervish foes in a hurry and drops damage against the team by huge amounts. Using a con set seems to almost guarantee victory even if afk, but it is too costly to be practical. Flagging heroes at the dragon rather than in front of it after the first wave seems to clear the issue of the ele's spawning out of aggro. It also seems that sometimes if you flag the heroes too far forward you can get one of the dwarven scouts in a stalemate with a single Ritualist destroyer delaying subsequent waves. I watched for about 5 minutes as my team kept spike healing the dwarf but not attacking. Seems like an additional anti-melee component would be helpful.EDR () 14:27, 6 March 2012 (UTC)EDR

I have just a few suggestions that you guys can take or dismiss as you please. For one, the initial build used 5 mesmers, for obvious reasons, and in order to use this build without merc heroes at least two of those mesmers need to be changed to a different primary (Razah can be changed to mesmer primary). In the build currently on the page, the three Energy Surge mesmers were converted to two elementalists and a ritualist. However, considering Energy Surge is your primary AoE spike damage, and considering Backfire, Empathy, and Mistrust are all 2+ second casting time, this build is considerably more effective as a mesmer primary. However, if you look at the Ineptitude mesmers, your three primary martial-hate skills are all hexes that don't require casting exactly at the moment the opponent is attacking. Also, while switching these mesmers to a second profession will decrease their damage output, often the melee will spread out when your heroes are kiting, making the damage much less effective. As such, running these two builds on E/Me's will provide the same defensive cover against martial opponents with only minor loss of damage output. Also, if you're worried about deaths, just use Resurrection Signet on the Ineptitude builds, rather than FoMF considering the team gets a moral boost after every wave.
Second, if you pay attention to your heroes, you will notice the SoS ritualist almost never has enough adrenaline to use Hexbreaker Aria, and those few times it completely charges are generally after the skill was actually needed. The extra armor from "Stand Your Ground!" is nice, although the most damaging attacks from Destroyers tend to be armor ignoring. Also, "Never Surrender!" is decent for a profession who's primary purpose is not healing (paragon). However, if you revert these three skills back to the restoration line, the party has much better healing, and the skill Protective Was Kaolai will provide extra AoE anti-spike healing.
Third, if you impose the previous change to the SoS ritualist, you will find the extra healing of the SoLS restore necromancer to be unnecessary, allowing you to revert him back to an E/Mo protection spammer. While the SoLS necromancer provides far more healing, the E/Mo will provide much necessary protection against all the destroyers trying to spike a single one of your guys down. Again, this change should only be made if the SoS ritualist is capable of healing. Otherwise, the SoLS restore necromancer is necessary.
I know that was quite the wall of text, and you're welcome to just ignore it, but I've found these changes to increase my chances of success to 100%. Also, it should be noted that you need to stick an ineptitude build on either side of the ridge, put an ES (not the healing one) at the peak of the ridge, and place everyone else, including yourself, in the spot near the dragon that completes a diamond shape with your other three heroes. Bring EoE and cast it at the 1:30 mark of the first round, and you should win.
(P.S. I used all Stalwart Insignias (mostly since they were cheap), and minor runes for the relevant attributes. Other than that, I used no other runes, and none of my heroes used a weapon.) 04:22, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
After a relatively rare occurrence where Vekk was dazed while spirits were down (preventing condition removal) leading to Vekk quickly deplenishing his energy, leaving him with no energy left to put up protections (even once the dazed was removed) I retract my last suggestion about bringing the E/Mo back into play. 00:37, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
I personally prefer my build set up because I bring a BIP, Soul Twist, and SoS as the backline. I can't say the build always works 100% due to user error and/or a bad aggro on the heros' part, but it frees the player from having to bring EoE and provides sustained energy/heals for the team.-- 02:14, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

improvement

Optional

This worked well for me and does not rely on subbar second profession mesmers (did it with r10...but the rang should matter much). Illoyon () 09:26, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

How are you pulling 3 mesmers and 2 Ritualists without mercs? That is kinda the point of this build. Plus, if you are going to do a complete change up of the build, make sure you make the build match up to the minibars. You are missing a complete build...-- 02:07, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Zei Ri is the second Ritualist, introduced after you complete WoC 3 in HM. Razah is thus moved to Mesmer.-- 02:34, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
Of the people I know that farm Glint's Challenge: none of them own mercs and none have completed WoC/HM. However, they are successful using the variant that includes Keystone Mesmers, a channeling rit, and a discord triplet.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford () () 04:00, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
The alternative is usually the E/Me or N/Me people have been posting-- 04:49, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
I stand corrected then and I guess I should finish WoC lol. Still missing a build on the build page though...-- 04:55, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
And now it doesn't.-- 05:40, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
I just make 1 necro my SoS resto when i'm not on my character with zei ri. 08:56, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
pvxwiki builds assume that you have ALL! heroes...no reason to post gimped bars, because most people you now don't have the 3rd rit hero (make a note on the page, that you also can use eles or nekros or what ever). Also there is no missing build (take a close look on the build page).Illoyon () 09:08, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

I'll test this when I get home tonight.. I'm certainly aware that when I cleared the mission with a human SoS yesterday I didn't need (and didn't bring with me) any more heals than the N/Rt healer. (ST is probably still useful just due to spike from fire eles and the dervishes. Useful thing about morale boost between waves is that you'll almost always have some spirits up) 10:03, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry bro, it failed to survive. Carefully documented why though: spiritual pain. Perhaps you intended for the ST rit to be separately flagged? 15:18, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
well i never failed with this...is your ST "runed"? and no i never seperate flag it. Illoyon () 15:32, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
tried it my self on my mesmer; r6, no insignias, no runes (except ST rit and sup death on N/P), no weapons (except spear on N/P), E/Me for 2nd Esurge with same build (only my main has 3rd rit hero). Did 3 runs, no fails. Make sure that no one wears staffs/focis (including yourself), equip ST, flag illu mes in the middle of the edge and the esurge mesmers right and left. Illoyon () 17:05, 14 March 2012 (UTC)


Works very well for me ive done about 20+ runs and it works better then the keystone one thats on youtube. whoever invented this build i love you. my heros never die and neither do i so again i thank you ;) —The preceding comment was added by ( • ) 14:00, 22 March 2012 (UTC).

if you think it works great vote it (to finally get it out of testing section). Illoyon () 14:21, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
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