Talk: E/A Assassin's Promise

Enough[]

With the bullshit votes. You're low-balling just to piss me off. It's ridiculous how this can go on, so let's sort it out. It seems the community is getting dumber and needs to get back to basics. This whole issue is mostly down to Jai/Rask assuming Anet has fixed the underpoweredness of nuking, and they almost have. There's just one problem; there's no utility in the mesh of AoE damage builds. All fire eles get is Burning condition spread and damage. AoE damage is all well and good, but you have 3-4 heroes doing this for you. Water eles are cool, but their damage output is mild at best due to cooldowns. Besides, everything a water ele can do, an Illusion mesmer can do 10x better AND more on the same bar. Same thing with Energy Surge mesmers and Fire eles. You get your nuke AND shutdown in one build. So it turns out eles weren't fixed in heroes because mesmers are OP. What about making ele builds more viable on humans, I hear you ask? Well yeah, they work, but they're only as effective as a hero spamming AoE skills but without the utility slots (humans hate carrying rupts/shouts/prots). So now you've got a full bar of damage skills and damage buffs/wards which you don't have time to cast all of. Here's the kicker; if one-two nukes don't kill your whole mob in one go, then you lose your argument. You have to snipe down dangerous/threatening targets first, as I keep reiterating. Annoying prot monks, multiple melee or something with enchant removal, for example. AP Eles are capable of delivering that extra spike power, along with the AoE shutdown provided from your mesmers to take out anything and thus making any mob an easy finish with your nukes. You still have nukes on an AP bar, by the way. AP Fire and Earth have full-blown AoE. Rodgort's can be spammed on recharge and Churning Earth/Eruption is amazing for defensefag play. Lightning Orb->ymlad is simply the hardest spike in the game and it can be repeated over_and_over. Cracked Armour spam isn't a bad thing for any build with eles in it anyway.

So this is basically my biggest complaint with the low ratings. You don't seem to get this is a team game which flourishes on synergies across the board. This is why the Chopagon is good, and all those other shitty axe builds; tank and spank with melee is still king and mesmers are still the best casters. Nothing_Has_Changed. ~Ӎiñon 05:03, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

The fact that this is trashed is retarded. Like the fuck? It's only, y'know, the best bar for an ele to run in pve with heroes. Life Guardian 05:21, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

tl;dr Not changing mah vote. Them 05:39, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

This stopped being good well after you quit GW bro.@Minion we were lowballing it before you were even unbanned. There are better options to take and you can read the archive for our (valid) reasoning. The matter is closed. I've spent enough time defending my votes so don't bother messaging me on this one, the build was supposed to be archived weeks ago.

05:40, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

It's not valid for archival. It's still used and it's still the most effective build a human ele can run. @Life; honestly, nothing has changed since you've been gone. HP raises, AL drops. Blanket nerf to everything and you see higher numbers from elemental damage, that's all. ~Ӎiñon

06:41, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Yeah i know. The only thing the update changed was that it made ap fire viable. Plus i talked with Jeydra when this issue came up and got reliable info lol. Life Guardian 06:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Maybe jeydra should make a pvx account and come tell us how pro AP + lightning orb is. Until then I think I'll stick with builds that are great, not trash.

07:02, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

"underpoweredness of nuking" no. --Jai. - 12:34, May 16 2012 (UTC)

"There are better options to take" - That is the single most retarded reason for archiving a build, when the build is still effective as a build. Why don't we just archive every dervish build in general PvE except VoS and Pious, because those are "better options to take"? Random Weird Guy 19:48, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

This is now about Chocolate Milk[]

Because chocolate milk is fucking awesome! Them 05:45, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

One look at the glorious chocolate milk is all it takes. The perspiration beading off the sides and the splashes makes my insides churn for more. Them 05:47, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Archival[]

This was supposed to be archived weeks ago, I don't know if I was expected to do it or what, but is there anyone aside from minion and life that want to try keeping it in the build space? 06:39, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Ignoring me and Life? There's no consensus, bro. ~Ӎiñon

06:42, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm asking if there are more people that share your opinion, how the fuck is that ignoring you?

06:57, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

"We don't store "different" or "fun" builds, we store optimal builds with as few weaknesses and as many strengths as possible. I believe the site you're looking for is Guild Wars Guru." Bringing jeydra into this kind of ruined any validity life's argument had (for me personally). I test every build I vote on, and this build is outdated and you guys have a serious case of fanboyism. Roll some other ele builds, play with the changed skills and see for yourself.

07:08, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I test too. I made a whole hero team with a friend based on the update. SFway was so bad at killing, I had to slot a Discord hero. I used dual-EA fire heroes which were nice, but again, sucked as a human because it was nothing but damage (on a recharge). It's not fanboyism, though you might like it to seem that way. Jeydra has proven with vast amounts of testing that the best build for an ele is still the AP Air bar. I went further to say any AP ele was better than Searing Flames/Elemental Attunement fire bars. And in this whole circular argument, you have not given one ounce of evidence other than "dun wury guise i test it hur durr trust me guise" ~Ӎiñon

08:13, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

""dun wury guise i test it hur durr trust me guise"" Unfortunately minion, while you were gone we worked on arguing like adults, while you sit here and play catch-up on your manners I'll be doing shit that's worth my time. A word of genuine friendly advice, stop trying to stir up drama that's already past. You're a cool guy, but when it comes to pvx you attach yourself to builds and let it blur your vision. Hope to have a more focused discussion on another build page.

09:01, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry rask but you really cannot invoke the "we're better than you argument" - that proves nothing and only damages your credibility.

I still use this build over EA/SF - I did use SF at one point, SF is inferior to EA, but a build with AP is no less clunky than a build with 3 enchantments - heroes have a shitload of aoe on and this provides better cleanup than any SoS rit. Cɥıǝɟʇɐıu Alǝx 09:16, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with Minion's reasoning, apart from being blunt and to the point (although, that doesn't exactly work). It's not a method of argumentation best to change ones' opponents' mind, but I can tell he's not trying to change your mind. You have both made your minds up and no amount of arguing/discussion will change a thing. Admin need to pull their finger out, honestly, but Rask has done a good job at buttering every greedy pig on this farm. @Minion; I will l will leave you with an obscure John Lennon quote: "Please! Please, everybody! If we haven't done what we could have done, we tried! We tried!!11eleven!1" ~Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs 09:31, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Umm, what Alex? He didn't say "I am better than you, that's why I am right." He said "I tested it and I am not convinced it is worth any more than I the value I gave it." Then Minion said "You are wrong." They countered with "I disagree." This is the exact same circular bullshit that has always occurred. If They is wrong, you should try to convince him to change his vote. Saying "You are wrong because you are wrong and I am right" is unlikely do to this. The current discussion is between archiving the build and deleting it as trash in 2 weeks time/waiting to see if it gets back into good. Personally with the volatility of voting I would be tempted to wait the 2 weeks, then if it is still in trash archiving it.

They is right about one thing, you all need to work on your discussion skills and logical reasoning, especially if you actually want to convince people of things. His only real mistake is that he isn't any better at it, but in this case, he doesn't actually have to convince anyone of anything. A new misery 09:38, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Couldn't have put it better myself, even if I wanted to.

09:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

@Soi, you do realize I've given minion ectos right? PvX isn't real life bro, in a place like this you gotta learn how to step back and appreciate people for who they are, not what their arguments are :\

09:47, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Misery; I am no longer discussing, it's a full-on rant, because Rask and Jai both disagree on the fundamental principal as to why everyone else believe it to be the best ele build for a human. Therefore, arguments/discussions are pointless until something is somehow established. The AP air build has been tested heavily by proxy and the same player has tested other elementalist builds post-Hard Mode update and deemed them all inferior. This isn't fanboyism and his arguments are worse. Where's your stats? Proof? How could you possibly show AP Ele is trash and unworkable? Even if you think it's inferior to other ele builds, there's a reason there's a Good category. ~Ӎiñon

09:59, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Trash Category* My points have been argued time and time again as have jai's and vincent's. Please take some time to read the archive, but still avoid bitching at me because we've been over this once and I'm pretty sure that no one wants to deal with it again.

10:07, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

How about this for an idea. Tell us what you found from testing both builds. positives and negatives. Remember to quickly note what heroes you use (vaguely), Thanks. Let's settle this without going back on ourselves, eh? If Misery thinks this can be resolved with a real discussion then here we go. ~Ӎiñon

10:15, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't have to be "solved", in two weeks time the problem solves itself ^_______________^

You fail to understand that the burden of proof lies with you, that is why you have not made any progress. It's They's vote that you want to change, he doesn't want anything and is perfectly happy with the current situation. A new misery 10:45, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

If it helps you minion, I can write a silly story about you like I did with smity, it seemed to ease the tension in that situation.

10:57, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, that's bullshit. The burden of proof lies on the one making the latest claim which differs from what we know. The burden of proof is on Rask to prove the build has gone from Great to Trash. ~Ӎiñon

11:11, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

You have no power to change or remove his vote. I technically have the power but no right. Ups, pretty sure you have to convince him if you want him to change it rather than tell him that he has to convince him why he is allowed to vote however he bloody well pleases as long as he sticks to policy. Yep, looks like your argument is still bullshit. A new misery 11:32, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

beats me why you choose to not view this as obvious vote balancing. like someone said already, 0-0ing (and arguably 1-1ing) this is just retarded, especially when the same voters 5-5 the SF and EA (and SH lol) pages. but at least Rask's voluntary sockpuppet makes pvx interesting. P.S. we need a meta trash tag ♟Fianchetto

20:15, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Why do you always mention random shit at the end of your comments, makes it difficult to take anything you say seriously fianchetto.--Relyk 20:27, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Fian is a pretty good guy, I mean... But why did you post that here? You're avoiding the debate because you can't prove why AP has gone from Great to Trash. I'd also like to point out there are NO DAMAGE BUILDS IN GREAT FOR ELE. What a fucking disgrace of a build site. ~Soi_ɹәʞɔ!ʇs 03:12, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

because single-target damage is inferior to AoE damage. You and Minion keep touting that this wins because it has such amazing single-target damage, yet EA/SF already deal out plenty of single-target but have nearby AoE on top of that. If you absolutely need big damage to take down priority targets, there's nothing stopping you from taking EVAS or FH on an EA/SF ele, with Air of Superiority as (only if you really wanted to). --Jai. - 03:18, May 17 2012 (UTC)

Maybe you should take misery's advice and stop trying to convince other people that I'm wrong, and try to convince me that I'm wrong.

03:21, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't get why you wanna archive this... This is still one of the best ele builds around (and I'm often currently using it). AP ele can spam both single-target and long recharge AoE spells. The main drawback is that usually foes are already dead before you can cast AP. --Aria Frost

14:17, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't get this either, all the other ele AoE builds will need trashing too if this is trashed. This is an AoE build because you're spamming AoE over and over while shouts are used even as you're casting. AoS is random and very often doesn't recharge at all so it cannot be compared to what AP is. Cuilan 17:40, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

File:Jaibalance.PNG[]

Moved to User Talk:Minion

Vote Balancing and Voting in general[]

Ok I and other admins are sick and tired of seeing the same old garbage popping up over and over about this build so I am drawing a line in the sand. The build has been votewiped and you may vote on the build as of now, vote what YOU think the build is worthy of, don't vote to adjust the overall score of the build. If me or any other admins get the slightest sniff of votebalancing then you will be banned without warning, consider this your warning for said act. Lastly, stop getting wound up over a build, if somebody votes differently to you then it's not the do all and end all for you to convince them to change their vote. Constructive arguments and counter arguments are all welcome but don't let it become personal. It's just a build for a 7 year old game on a barely popular wiki, remember that when you are posting.

Frostels 18:22, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

My vote is going to be the same as it always has. Single-target < AoE I don't give a fuck what kind of playstyle you like. We store good builds here, not 3 pve skills and an elite.

00:46, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

blanket statements like that don't help your argument. there's a ton of maps with small mob sizes where single target spike > aoe. also i heard running Razah as SoGM (Xandra = SoS) is cool, when you could give him aoe instead. i assume you know why. ♟Fianchetto

01:36, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't support SoS or SoGM either bro, SoS is worthless since the nerf, minions do more damage and wall without microing <3.

02:07, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Worthless? Being able to deal damage, bodyblock, spam Splinter/AR with a spot-heal that removes conditions, a WoH-like powerheal and party-wide heal whilst having near-unlimited energy... Yeah, SoS nerf dealt with all those things. It still deals reasonable damage, too. ~Ӎiñon

02:27, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Necro can do all of those things, lololol

02:27, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Because the effectiveness of SoS is so relevant to this talk page. Random Weird Guy 13:31, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Stop complaining. Frostels says: vote what you think this build should have for rating. Don't complain, don't get butthurt, just vote and see... -- Sh@dow // Haze 17:04, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

do keep in mind that pve skills got buffed for most players :) ♟Fianchetto

21:45, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

PvE skills didn't get a "buff", now kindly fuck off--Relyk 21:48, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

game update, too lazy to link it. derp. ♟Fianchetto

23:02, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

It's not a buff fianchetto.

23:20, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

your EVAS got stronger, your "FH" got stronger, blahblahblah. it's called a blanket buff.

I still don't see why we cannot exploit OP PvE skills in PvE, which is what these OP skills were created for in the first place.DarkSpirit 20:03, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

You can do whatever you like, but 3 pve skills and AP doesn't constitute a build page.

20:13, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand what you are saying. Are you saying this build has only 3 pve skills + AP and it requires you to bring 4 other blank skill slots? That is not how I read this build. DarkSpirit 20:33, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm saying that ANY class can run AP + 3 pve skills and this build isn't beneficial to the elementalist at all, it doesn't have a niche use, it doesn't even touch their primary attribute, and in general it was circlejerked in because some kid on guru makes youtube videos with this build. I could go on and on, but I suggest you reach the archive (theres a link at the top of the page) and save us both some time ^ ^

20:35, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't have a niche use because it is suppose to be under general PvE? I don't how this build deserves the worst possible rating of 0. I have tested it myself and it is certainly viable in HM so it seems to me that a rating "War" is going on to bring this build down.DarkSpirit 20:41, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

With 7H you can clear DoA on hard mode with proper tactics. You haven't made a valuable point yet. We store OPTIMAL builds, not fun builds, not builds that "work". The best of the best. This is inferior, Every other AP build (necro excluded for specific reasons) has been trashed, this offers not benefit over the ones that have been trashed before.

20:47, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

My question is, since 0 is the worst possible score, is this the worst possible build in PvE so much so that it is not viable at all? Ask yourselves honestly, is this build deserving of the score that you gave or are you giving this score just to spite some people? As for me I have been using this build on both my Eles to clear foundry for awhile now so I really don't think this deserves a zero if you vote honestly.DarkSpirit 20:52, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

^an inconvenient truth ♟Fianchetto

20:58, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

You seem to think that voting is based how well the build works, unfortunately it's not. If we voted in every build that worked we would have thousands of shitty builds to manage. I voted it 0 because I believe this build holds absolutely ZERO benefit over other elementalist builds, in both effectiveness and Universality. Do you believe this build is PERFECT? Why all of the 5-5 votes? It's a two-way street so don't try and tell me I'm going the wrong way.

21:08, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

The votes have a range of 0 to 5 why should it be only black and white for you? Just give an HONEST vote and let the community decide if this is a keeper or not. Everyone should be voting based on their honest feedback after trying the build out.

And by the way, I give any build a rating of 5, if I think that it is great, not just this build. Even though every build has its weaknesses. DarkSpirit 21:21, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I give every build that sucks a 0. I'm seeing a double-standard here, are you female by any chance?

21:25, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I have never voted a 0 on any builds here, even those builds that I dislike, because 0 is the worst possible score left for totally ridiculous and not viable builds. Is this build not viable at all to you? DarkSpirit 21:29, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Half of what makes an AP Caller build so good, is breaking the skills that are balanced for high recharges, and the flexibility it can offer. Elementalists are the perfect AP callers. Anyone who has seriously tried an AP Ele knows how effective it is to spam meteor showers, to spam eruptions+churning earths, or even spam AoE fire spells with huge instant-cast spikes and utility inbetween. Saying that an AP Caller build consists of an elite and three PvE skills shows how much some people haven't tested it enough. That statement is pure biased theorycrafting. DiogoALS 12:09, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Other arguments made against an AP Caller are terrible as well. Hex removal can be prevented with skill. A well-timed AP+("You Move Like a Dwarf!"+)"Finish Him!" makes it impossible for your enemies to remove the hex. This is a fact. All the while, the overhyped EA/ SF builds get completely trashed with enchantment removal, especially the mimicry hero+player/ hero variant, which is the only worthwhile one in the first place, and there's nothing you can absolutely do but pray.

When it comes to Energy Storage, to put it plain and simple, it's a mediocre attribute. It was designed to keep eles effective under a lot of exhaustion, and its best skill doesn't even requires much investment. Using the lack of a crappy attribute to justify why this build is crappy is a prime example of what happens when you don't have good arguments on your side.

Lastly, and more importantly, the AoE power. There are some shallow minds here to whom the biggest numbers for damage = the biggest numbers for vetting. An Ap Caller can spam AoEs with massive utility, completely unlike the SF/ EA builds, and whatever little damage you lose, you compensate by disabling entire groups of enemies. But, conveniently, those people all forget to mention that. "But the numbers that pop up on the screen are slightly higher with an EA build!" And for that, they give to this 0-0s, 1-1s and 2-2s, and to the mediocre EA/ SF builds, big, golden, perfect 5-5s. DiogoALS 12:09, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Doing EotN[]

So many destroyers, should probably pick one of the 3 vetted ele builds that are useful with heroes off of pvx. I'm sure fire magic will work really well. hint:with this trashed we have no options for eles vs titans, elementals, or destroyers Life Guardian 02:56, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

With this trashed there won't be builds to use with heroes or for general play. Cuilan 04:19, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Winter says hi mad fanboys. So mad!

04:30, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

that's a great solution. Winter on a hero, have fun using Draw Spirit every 10 seconds. antifanboys so mad! ♟Fianchetto

14:05, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Then go make a build that's not shitty and doesn't do fire damage. We're not going to store an inferior build just because ~2 places in the game have fire immunity. --Jai. - 14:07, May 19 2012 (UTC)

spamming Eruption + Churning isn't fire damage. ♟Fianchetto

14:21, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Spamming Eruption + Churning is bad though.

16:33, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Winter is fucking terrible--Relyk 18:43, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Eruption and Churning Earth are good enough even when taking into account the high recharges, so the moment you can spam them 2-3 times per battle, they become godly. The massive crowd control those two offer when spammable allows you to completely overshadow your illusion mesmer hero and substitute it for something else. But then again, I don't even know if I should bother stating the obvious. Trashing two good skills and suggesting Winter is very revealing of your knowledge on this game. DiogoALS 11:42, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

And after 17 votes are in[]

The vast majority of the community (15) find this build to be absolutely excellent, and the remaining 2 give highly contrasting scores with arguments that were already proven wrong to be wrong, or not reflective of the ridiculous low rating. Seems like after the vote-balancing clean up takes blace, this should get back to great, where it deserves to be. DiogoALS 20:40, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

The "vote balance clean up" has taken place. Two people's votes were removed, and several others that had trashed the build haven't revoted since the wipe. It also doesn't matter if there's exactly one dissenter in the face of 100 other people, if that one person is the one who's actually right. For a classic example, would you jump off a bridge just because a bunch of others are going to? Majority =/= correct. --Jai. - 20:45, May 22 2012 (UTC)

The vote based on hex removal is laughable. Just shows that they fucking suck at timing. Sucking at usage =! a reason for 0 vote. Cɥıǝɟʇɐıu Alǝx 20:57, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Hex removal and AP ending before killing an enemy will always be an issue since it's dependent on your setup and how you play.--Relyk 21:01, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Apply both late. Don't use this in hex removal zone = profit? honestly we don't 0-0-0 EA because every zone with enchantment removal fucks it. (Not as if you're the only hexer in your team in pve either) Cɥıǝɟʇɐıu Alǝx 21:05, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Don't rate based on skill, nor is it even that hard. As Alex says; either don't cast AP in certain mobs, use a fish hex, cover hex and/or cast AP later than usual. It's also unlikely to be stripped if you have a Panic mesmer. Dan Eagleman 21:12, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

(EC)I don't find a problem with enchantment removal on EA simply because the recharges are short enough that you can work around it. You don't get significantly crippled by the removal of EA and/or Fire Attunement either.--Relyk 21:17, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

If you're having problems from Fire Attunement (which should be covering EA) getting removed, then you're doing something wrong. If you're not having problems when AP gets removed (which, regardless of how you play, will at least occasionally happen), then you obviously don't have any idea what constitutes a working build. --Jai. - 22:21, May 22 2012 (UTC)

And to give an example of stuff getting removed that you'd think never should get removed: One of my favorite builds is Pious Renewal. The biggest complaint about the build is that it's easy to strip AoHM while you're spamming your skills. However, one thing most people don't see unless they actually extensively play the build, is that AoHM will occasionally get stripped even if you are flawless in your usage of PR. This is because enchantment removal can come at the precise time you're applying PR, and it gets immediately stripped. In PR's case, you lose AoHM, so your DPS goes down by about 20, giving you about 50-60 left over before factoring in SoH, Splinter, etc. This same problem occurs with AP: Say you use a fish hex to draw out the hex removals, and just as you cast AP one of the Smite Crawlers is trying to remove Panic/Suffering/Whatever, and before you even get out of aftercast, there goes your elite. Problem with AP is that if it does get stripped, the majority of your energy management is gone and you've got 15+ second recharges on every one of your skills. In other words, you're effectively useless for 45 seconds, or the entire rest of the fight.

Now, to me this isn't anywhere near the worst aspect of AP, but it's there nonetheless, and trying to say that proper usage of AP means its never removed is simply false, unless you're using nothing but AP and shouts activated within a few milliseconds of casting the hex, at which point you're doing nothing but mediocre single-target damage and we're back to square one. --Jai. - 22:33, May 22 2012 (UTC)

If you're that worried about AP being removed, you should only be casting it followed immediately by a FH! to kill the enemy. Im not trying to say that AP will never be stripped or never be stopped from being removed, but intelligent play should lead to 1 or 2 APs being removed at the most in a zone with very heavy hex removal. Note that hex removal has no play on the effectiveness of this build, but rather its universality, and 95%+ of the game is a complete joke in terms of chances that an important hex will be removed especially in a multiple mesmer pve meta. Life Guardian 02:29, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Enchantment stripping can not be prevented. If a mob can strip it out of you, it'll do it, and there's little you can do. Meanwhile, AP should be followed by a FH! for a quick finish, which makes it impossible for monsters to remove it. Sure, it's still subject to human error, but that won't happen frequently. One of the most effective plays with this build, from my personal experience, is to start with the ymlad+sin, cast the earth nukes or instant-cast meteor shower, and only then apply the hex followed by a FH on called target! It's almost garanteed that your sin, your heroes, your nukes and your shout spike will kill the foe. After the recharge, I change my casting order, use the glyph, and immediatly spam the nukes again, find the quickest way to kill another single target, and recast the nukes once more. The chaos that such strategy brings to the battlefield makes a much bigger difference, especially in harder areas, than spamming fire damage with EA. And the same applies to the contrary: this is also a better build in areas with fewer, more sccatered enemies, like in most of the prophecies. It's one of the greatest elementalist builds by far, and there's yet to exist any arguments that reflect a 0-0 and a 1-1.

With hex-removal easily avoidable, massive utility compensating for a bit less damage in crowded areas, and even having the best damage in scattered areas, we can conclude that this build is being down-votted through ignorance and bad play. Also, the crappy sin build Jaigoda gave as an example does not have half the power (if any) for crowd control and aoe damage, the single target damage is hardly better, and is twice as frail.

Finally, here's what we can conclude of the arguments against an AP Caller:

All the 15 vetters who gave the build a great score are wrong, and the few that gave it an "as bad as hamstorm" score are right. A warrior with firestorm and hamstring is equally effective than an AP Caller, and this an obvious fact.
DoT is not the best form of damage in theory, so it's delusional to think that breaking it and making it stronger than what it was meant to be is going to make it stronger than what it was meant to be.
AP does not works because enemies can instant-cast hex removal, somewhere in an hidden place in GW1 that no one was able to find yet, and regardless, they will always hit your AP out of the countless mesmer and necromancer hexes.
The numbers that pop up in the screen with an EA build are higher, even though they aren't in prophecies, especially in high-end prophecies and high-end eye of the north. Utility in GW1 is pointless because Panic exists. DiogoALS 11:22, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

+1. this isn't getting trashed, even with a lot more 0-0s. trashing stuff due to your own inexperience/lack of testing/badness isn't cool...no names mentioned. ♟Fianchetto

17:11, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I would agree you shouldn't mention any names, Fianchetto.--Relyk 22:45, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

enchantment removal can be prevented the same way hex removal can... Panic, CoF, dazes and other rupts/anticasts and you can still cover-enchant the same as coverhexing... oversight on your part, Dialogueasl. in pve you dont get many mobs with multiple enchant strips aside from grawl mobs or maybe dwarfs? anyway ye, hex removal/ench removal=equal risk. PermaSwag 07:15, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I sometimes find some really annoying necro mobs that strip my enchants in seconds, but I know what you're saying. My main point was, you don't even need to cover AP, because AP is not even an hex you want to have it stay on an opponent for a long time. As it's part of a spike, especially a shout-based spike, you can prevent it's removal in that more active, skillful way of playing. DiogoALS 11:00, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

trying to cover AP is like trying to cover Aegis in pvp ♟Fianchetto

17:04, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

1/1 vote[]

Following extensive voting by PvX community over last decade, this build should be "Great"; the justification for the single 1/1 vote (which reduces from 4.84 to 4.67) is very outdated given Meta changes

I know that vote balancing Assassin's Promise Ele has been a nightmare due to the years-old flame wars between certain members of this site. However, if you review all ratings of this build you have 16 5.0 ratings for effectiveness, including two votes from 2019-2020. If you remove the one vote (from eight years ago) which was a 1/1, the build has an overall rating of 4.84. With the 1.0 rating it drops to 4.67.

The 1.0 rating from that User references there being "no point in utility when Panic is all the utility you'll ever need," which is outdated given that E-Surge has overtaken use of Panic in nearly all recommended "Great" 7H builds. It also states that "EA/SF does far, far better damage than this build," which is outdated given that SF has been trashed as outdated.

I propose that this vote be removed and this build return to its "Great" status. It does not make sense for a single "spite" vote from an eight-year old war between users to scuttle an otherwise excellent build, as determined by 95% of voters. -- Devuu ((Yuko Asakura [PhD])) 18:18, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Reasoning was just weird, trying to justify that utility is pointless because everybody brings Panic... on an ele build. It's sitting on the threshold for Great/Good, we'll see where the next vote tips it. -Chieftain Alex (talk) 16:50, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

So far I've put all builds at exactly 4.75 into great. Accordingly, I've now done the same with this build. --Krschkr (talk) 17:32, 15 May 2020 (UTC)